HE NoteBook and TeX
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HE NoteBook and TeXby durbrow - 09:26PM, Jun 07, 2004 |
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Is anyone using NoteBook in conjunction with TeX? If so, how? For example, is there a preferred format to convert NB files into TeX files? Do people prefer to use NB with LyX or TeXShop?
P.S. Jayson: Couldn't you include a LaTeX engine in the next update of NB? This seems just a minor change.  |
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There's actually a secret, experimental TeX feature in NoteBook that allows you to place TeX code in a cell and tell NoteBook to render it to PDF and place the results in the cell's Media Frame. I need some TeX-savvy users to help me flesh it out.
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This would be really nice ... at least I think so. If you need someone to help testing I'm willing to help.
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I never used raw TeX but I have quite some experience with the macro packages LaTeX and ConTeXt. If that helps then I am willing to help. Cheers, /Markus.
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I am not a TeX expert but I have used TeXShop and LyX. I would be happy to help if you think a low-level of expertise will be helpful. Also, I belong to the TeX for Mac mail list. If you email me I will ask if anyone is using NoteBook on this list. This could be a "way-cool" feature Jayson.
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Now that I ponder this, I think Jayson is pulling our legs What say Jayson is there really a TeX capability in NB or are you working for the Matrix? 
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As long as NB can export files in plain text with the extension .tex (which it cannot do at present), of course it could be used as an editor for LaTeX. It lacks the power of AlphaX, but I wouldn't want NB to have all that - there is a tool for everything. NB helps me to draft, note, focus on contents. As long as it than exports well to a plain editor, all is fine. Export of multiple pages (as one file or as separate files) would really be helpful. A (customizable) LaTeX-exporter a la Ulysses (will have) would also be useful: automatic convertion of italics etc. BTW, it is possible to use such macros via iKey, and perhaps it is even possible to create a folder called "KeyBindings" with "DefaultKeyBinding.dict" in the Library folder - but I have no experience myself with creating one. At present, I use NB for rough notes. I write in Ulysses, and finish it in AlphaX / DT. Beefed up export facilities in NB would be welcome, a LaTeX-exporter a luxury. Welcome, not essential. I suppose (recordable) AppleScript is more essential.
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Smolk this is useful information. Also, I think OmniOutliner has an applescript that can convert optl (spelling) do TeX but it did not work for me. It may be possible to export NB files to OmniOutliner than convert to TeX. BTW, do you like Uylsses? Its value seems to be restrict the user (extreme minimalism) but why not just use a cheaper text editor and avoid formating until you get it processed by a TeX engine. Finally, I am using TeXShop and LyX so I am a TeX neophyte. Would you recommend trying AlphaX?
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quote: Dear Durbrow, I did not know that - but within a few months I'm buying a new PB (hopefully a G5...) and I understand that OO is part of the package  quote: I would definitely recommend AlphaX or Alphatk (the latter is multiplatform, which is useful for some people) - it's a fine editor, very customizable, though a bit hard to get to know thoroughly. For LaTeX, however, it's almost indispensable. The nearest competitors are Pepper and BBEdit, the latter of which is expensive. Pepper used to have a nice "find differences" mode. In AlphaX I haven't been able to make it work yet, but I didn't try hard. I considered using AlphaX as an external editor for DT files, with the comments window in DT as a replacement of Ulysses' notes window. Works. But I really like Uls' FullScreen Mode, and actually also the clean interface of the main window with notes and overview of documents. Try it to actually write, or rewrite, something and you'll discover whether it's for you. I rewrote some unwilling paragraphs and I was sold on the spot. I even tried other apps (NT, don't say it aloud) with a black background, Monaco 10pt, as a substitute - not half as nice, with the disadvantage that the black background cannot easily be switched off, as in Ulysses. It's the philosophy which appeals to me - but then again, I still know what it is to use a typewriter. Yes, it is minimalism, but minimalism well conceived. Take CopyWrite - what an awful screen. Compare also NoteTaker to NoteBook - the former has more options, but it is far less pleasant to the eye and intuitive than the latter. For writing, these things can make a difference - I have not converted to NT, for example, even though it supports Hebrew and NB does not (yet). I do not know LyX. What is it and do you recommend it?
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smolk: I'm not into typography as much as you and Durbrow -- although I did some fancy stuff using Gutenberg on an Apple ][ years ago! Check out LyX at this site: <http://www.lyx.org/>. I suspect it could be used to produce really neat PDF output. I'm more into producing Web output these days, and hyperlinking is the thing for me.
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Downloaded and installed LyX for Mac (I happen to have a teTeX installation, albeit without my own fonts because I never figure dout how to install them - in CMacTeX it was a breeze, thanks to superior documentation). It is a cute program - but it works like a WP, and doesn't it thereby run counter to the TeX (and Ulysses') philosophy? I am not so sure about it. (La)TeX is often customarized - how do you work that out in LyX? My Semitic fonts surely will not work  I would not use LaTeX for the web, indeed. In fact, I may soon produce some syllabi for teaching via NB, since its web-output is great - with a cumbersome work-around for the Hebrew (via Hebrew service "reverse selection" used line by line). Usually, however, that is not how I work. I am co-editing a journal and producing all my work camera-ready via LaTeX (printed as PDF).
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Bill, Smolk, Marcus: Here is something new (I think). I think it works even if you are not using TeXShop. http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=xetex
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Durbrow, many thanks - this looks highly interesting. One of my main problems is the translitteration of Hebrew, because it tends to get me confused when I am typing in the Hebrew keyboard. Now, if I can use a Hebrew keyboard in TeX as the screenshots of XeTeX suggest (for Arabic), this is magnificent. I expect that it requires a cocoa editor. Alas, AlphaX is Carbon, so I might need a new editor. I will need to find out how to install PostScript fonts under teTeX. Unless I decide that I should prefer Omega/Makor or ArabTeX... But it is worth trying, and I definitely will.
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Its not an editor but I use TeXShop which I believe is cocoa. Also, Smolk et al., I tried pasting some TeX code into a cell and then looked for a secret way to render it in a media frame but could not find it. Has anyone done this (see Jayson's message above)? P.S. Smolk it seems that Ulysses is designed for the freewriting stage of academic and creative writing where one does not want to bother with formating or other distractions but simply let the ideas flow out. Is this the right approach? I try to do this NoteBook as I benefit from the outline structure but I can see that some people would find the hierarchy more of a distraction than a tool.
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TeXshop has none of the built-in macros of Alpha. It is of course possible to use iKey or so, but Alpha is more versatile than that. I may need to have another look at JEdit instead. I would not understand how NB can display text rendered as TeX, and I am not sure either that it should have such abilities. Rather, as a writing tool it might be able to create TeX-savy output. As you say, Ulysses is indeed designed for freewriting, and the makers refuse to add the usual formatting options. Quite rightly so, it works for me. NB in fact also comes close, and I have also used it in this way. But in practice I use it as a note-taking tool rather than for drafting. I also use it to structure classical literary texts; here, outlining and colouring are essential. So I switch between my notes in NB, more permanent data in DT, and Ulysses at the moment. I do not really mind - it's nice to have tools like these for different purposes. If only Alpha were Cocoa. 
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quote: I am not sure I understand what the benefit of XeTeX is. It is another TeX engine supporting additional font encoding schemes, isn't it? So the benefit of using it would be access to more fonts? Thanks, /Markus.
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To me the benefit seems to be that you can type in actual fonts via the keyboard - so no translitteration is needed for Arabic or Hebrew. It is something which may reduce typos in my texts. Since it works with teTeX, I do not think font installation is all that easy, not to say horribly complicated. CMacTeX is far easier in this respect.
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quote: Sounds cool, I guess I'll give XeTeX a try. It should be pretty easy to get it since I am using Gerben Wierda's TeXLive and TeXShop. I have teTeX only on my Sun and I didn't touch it for years. I am spoiled by the Mac way. :-) Thanks, /Markus.
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For the record: it seems that, technically speaking, Carbon apps should be able to display Arabic/Hebrew correctly via the ATSUI viewer (or so I am told). In practice, though, the Carbon apps I know (TeX-edit +, PowerMail, Pepper, BBedit) just cannot do it even if they can handle Unicode (Pepper can encode correctly, but only when you read the file in TextEdit will you see the proper fonts). Afaik, WASTE cannot do it either at present. I do not know why, I only know that CoCoa apps usually have no problem in this respect.
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I didn't want to fix my LateX implementation until it was broke - and now it is. I decided to give XeTeX a go late at night. And what a dream. I can actually type in Arabic, Hebrew, see what I type in these languages, and then TeX it. The example file was in plain TeX, and I haven't had the time yet to find out how it all works in LaTeX. I am not sure I want to move to plain TeX, even though at one point I might want to use EDMAC. Looking for acceptable Unicode fonts is an issue. I do have some queries. For example, XeTeX is based on UTF-8, whereas some specialists appear to insist on UTF-16. For now, it is so easy to work with, that I'm continuing its use for a couple of weeks to evaluate this system.
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Smolk: Any chance we can see a demo or have a sample NoteBook? Or a screen shot? No problem if it is a bother but I think several of us would be very impressed if NB can do this elegantly.
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I actually use TeXshop at the moment for my experient with XeTeX. It is of course possible to work in Notebook first, but I doubt it will satisfy your wishes. In passing, WASTE 3.0 is supporting Unicode and is in active development; I have a working beta version. Good news for some older apps; but if the stories about Carbon apps disappearing on MacIntel are true, there will be little relevance any longer...
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I've been using (until the latest version) Equation Service to insert all my LaTeX things into Notebook. It would be: 1) Great if Notebook could do this automatically, without having to go to an external app/service. 2) Great if Notebook could customize the Apple-/ key that toggles the toolbar since this key combination prevents the Equation Service (service) from running. If you are still looking for LaTeX folks, I use it in practically every lab notebook entry I use, Jayson. -k
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Jayson
Member
12:08PM, Jun 10, 2004